Updated on April 5, 2016: After getting feedback from a wide variety of sources I have added some corrections and updates to this review. These updates are notated with bold text at the beginning of the update. The updates are noted in the Autofocus, User Interface, Flash Sync and Software sections of this comparison. Thanks to everyone for...
[…] « Winter 2016 NewsletterThe Hasselblad H5D 50C WiFi vs. The Phase One XF IQ350 » […]
Wow Michael, had no idea about how bad the Phase One AF was. AF is VERY important and add the price differential, it is a no-brainer.. Thanks for the very comprehensive review.
Tony Bonanno
So I’ve been shooting h5x and credo 40 for about a year and a half, and while k have never shot a cmos back, I agree on all fronts wth what you’ve written. I previously had an older h1 and the af on that was awful – true focus works amazingly well, and I’m probably in the range you are with focus 75-80%. The market for used lenses was a huge factor for me, as I own four lenses but bought zero new.
Michael,
Any chance the Phase One could have been defective ??
Tony
Tony – I am pretty sure it was fine. Several other photographers have said the AF on the XF was pretty useless.
Michael, Good review. You had commented about sync speeds on the XF and stated the 35LS sync speed was found to sync only to1/100. Is that correct? My 35 LS is actually in, just need to pay for it and I find that info surprising.
I use Broncolor RFS 2.1 remotes and they have a very fast transmit time and I easily sync to 1/1600 on the Schneider 55,80 & 110LS with no issue at all. I have also used Profoto ( built in transmitter )with no issues. Phase from what I understand is working on additional Profoto features on the menu, “Fast mode” is one of them I understand which speeds up the transmitter “transmit time” to take full advantage of 1/1600 sync speed. Pocket Wizard transmitters must be set to TX only and receivers must be set to HSR mode in order to work properly with HSS. Have you received any other correspondence from other pros regarding A/F or lack of A/f accuracy?
Don
Don – Thanks. I look forward to hearing your experiences with the new lenses and the flash sync speeds. To clarify, the lenses that were in questions with eh 1/1600th sec flash sync speed were the new larger “blue line” lenses.
As for feedback on the Phase One XF’s AF abilities, as I stated in the article everyone using the XF that I talked to before posting the review considered the AF extremely poor on the XF. There is a health conversation going on in the Forum’s on Luminous-Landscape and GetDPI about this review and comparison. Some say the AF is great and serves them well others say they have had quite a few issues with it.
Interesting stuff! I moved from Hasselblad to a Phase One XF last December. I ordered the 80MP CCD back, but by the time it shipped the 100MP CMOS back was also available, so I paid a discounted upgrade price and went for broke! My old H3D II was getting on for eight years old, and whilst still amazingly good, had started showing signs of wear. On top of that my fighting lens, the 35-90 locked up when the internal focus ring failed. It came back after $1500 holiday but still wasn’t right – soft on the righthand side. This was one of the reasons I chose the XF – Schneider-Kreuznach. I understand they’re optically comparable with Hasselblad’s, but I just felt the build quality was a bit better. With the Phase One XF and back it’s been so far, so good. I haven’t experienced any issues with autofocus. It’s probably done 30 or so shoots with no lock up. Yes, it’s a bit heavy handheld!! I shoot a hell of a lot of stuff on a tripod or high hat with the mirror up, so love the time delay options and seismograph. I’d developed a knack with the H3D of knowing when images were sharp (you couldn’t always tell from the preview!), but with the XF the screen is amazing. There’s also the promise that of this thing fails, they’ll ship a replacement to me – anywhere in the world. To give Phase One their due, the XF is still being developed. Yesterday I was sat reading about the automatic focus stacking capabilities which comes with the latest update, as does time lapse. The Phase will be more expensive than the Hasselblad (all day long) but no one ever pays the published price – inc. me!
Wow you really didn’t get on with the XF did you?
I wrote a review of the XF + IQ350 in July 2015 (on my website) and didn’t experience any of the issues you describe.
One of the lenses I had was the new blue ring 35mm which I would agree is a substantial piece of glass but I loved using it. I wouldn’t describe it as excessively heavy but the camera body weight has increased because of the inclusion of a glass prism.
The problems you experienced with the new focusing system are difficult to explain but in the couple of weeks I had the camera focussing was never an issue.
I used Pocket Wizards with Elinchrom heads in the studio and they fired every time without issue. I also use a Broncolor Move kit and they worked fine on location.
One of the strengths of the Phase One / Capture One software is Capture Pilot and the ability to push images to an iPad / iPhone directly from the IQ back by using the built in wi-fi transmitter. As you say Capture One Pro is way ahead of Phocus or LR and working tethered with an XF / IQ3 is just so easy.
There is no doubt that the H5D is an excellent camera and at the price point in December represented excellent value. The handgrip LCD and the LCD on the back are as you say awful and unworthy of the camera. The price reduction in my opinion was probably more about shifting old stock than trying to bring people into MF. Lenses are also currently on offer suggesting that a major overhaul of the product range may be coming on April 7th.
As I don’t own either I look forward to seeing how Hasselblad respond to the XF system.
Michael, thanks for the review. Half a year ago I was considering changing my Contax 645 with a Leaf Aptus 7 II-back to a H5D 50c. Comming from Nikon fullfomat I was through with the one AF-point, low ISO and bad display of the CCD-back. At that time the price for the H5 was at € 25K or so. I tried it against the Pentax 645 Z, you have mentioned too. Doing this I found out, that the Z has a very well functioning AF-System, even in low-light-situations and Ricoh advanced the sensor so Hi-ISO above 1000 are no problem at all. The handling and the display are like DSLRs. The only thing which I didn´t like was the flash-sync-time of 1/125. But as you wrote: I can use a fullformat DSLR with highspeed-sync if needed. So I bought a used Z and then several FA 645 Lenses. Now I am having a digital medium-format system, with 35mm, 55mm, 75mm, 120mm macro, 150mm, 200mm, 45-85mm and 80-160mm-lenses and the overall best medium format camera for much less than $ 14.500,00. Even new, the whole system with the newest lenses (25, 35, 90mm) would be less than the H5 without any ore with only one lens. So I think, that it is ridicoulous to pay 20 or 30 or even 40 to 60 grands for camera-systems with almost no AF bad displays and bad ISO. I want more than 70% percent and for sure more than 10% sharp images. I hope you will like your Hassi instead and have a lot of fun with it!
Thanks for the comments Frank. Great info there….good to hear you haven’t had any AF issues. It seems like there is a mix of issues.
Thanks you so much for this awesome post: this is the review I have been waiting for for a long time. Precise, informative, you cover every aspect for both cameras. Definitely sharing your post with friends photographers! Cheers.
How many photographers who own XF cameras told you they had focus problems? You said “everyone” you didn’t call me nor any of my numerous professional colleagues who shoot with the camera.
You shot with the camera for one day? I would hardly consider that enough time to get use to the camera and learn how to operate it. Why didn’t you ask one of the photographers who own the XF to shoot the alongside you? Are you going to show us the test photos you shot?
Jeffery – As I said in the comparison, those photographers I talked with said they had AF issues. I didn’t say I had talked to every XF owner. Those photographers that I talked to that own an XF live in other States and are working pros so it is tough to get together and borrow their camera while they are traveling non-stop. I won’t be posting comparison images as I did not have both cameras at the same time so I think it is unfair to both cameras to post comparison images of different scenes – aside from the noise test. This is just my experiences and thoughts on the two cameras.
[…] 5.4.16: השוואה מענינת בין Hasselblad H5D 50C WiFi לבין PhaseOne XF […]
I’ve been shooting with the DF+ and a IQ250 back for about a year with LS lenses. The autofocus performance I’ve seen is decent in the sense that it gets close, but it is not perfect often enough that I usually double-check the focus. In practice this means that is spot-on about half of the time, but I don’t like trusting that any given shot is in perfect focus. This is why I try to shoot tethered whenever possible and use AF to get approximate focus. If it proves to be soft in Capture One, I make small MF adjustments until it is perfect. Once this is dealt with, the model can start posing/acting in earnest. It takes several minutes to check this, and it has to be re-checked after every significant shot or if the model moves off their mark. Having said all this, I am used to MF on DSLR cameras (Zeiss on Nikon) so this doesn’t bother me much.
AP
I attended the launch party for the H6D series in NYC. They went to great lengths to specify that the old H lenses cannot be upgraded with the new shutters. They found that they couldn’t manufacture enough shutters to build the new lenses and upgrade all the old ones. The NYC staff had just gotten their hands on the h6D just a few days before the event, so a lot of the information was new to them. I think it would probably be wise to wait to know more before expecting the opportunity to upgrade.
Lawrence – I was told they could by several Hasselblad reps and online directly from Hasselblad. I guess we will see here at some point. It won’t matter to me as I have an H5D and won’t be upgrading anytime soon.
[…] The Hasselblad H5D 50C WiFi vs. The Phase One XF IQ350 […]
Ive shot with both of thee cameras extensively I waited with baited breathe for the XF system and was willing to part with nearly 60k AUS. After a few test rentals and a 10 day shoot around Australia i soon realised the flaws of this new XF system. the focus is terrible. I have 20/20 vision and i could not get a frame sharp without engaging live view and focussing then shooting. This does not work out when you’re trying to capture candid and real time images.It forced me onto a tripod, and that killed the fluidity of the shoot. I previously had remembered being on a beach in wales, in driving rain and wind on a cloudy low light day chasing the one and only Bear Grylls around on the older mamiya df+ body with the 1q140 back if i remember correctly and not even thinking about the autofocus. Nearly every shot was tack sharp. essentially they have failed by not waiting for a multi spot focus system. Its a huge let down. I now just rent a H5x with an iq350 back as a work around as true focus performs really well. I hope this helps some people out there to not feel like they are fools because they cant get a pin sharp shot out of the XF without engaging live view which is a ridiculous work around.
Cory – Glad to hear I wasn’t the only onto had AF issues with the Phase One XF. I have found the Hasselblad H5D AF to be quite accurate and I trust it implicitly without having to use Live View or have it tethered. Thanks for your insight!
Hello Michael,
Since I left my last comment, I upgraded to the Phase One XF with the IQ3-100 back (XF-100). Because of your review here, I seriously considered the equivalent Hasselblad instead. From your review, I liked the idea of getting 1) a lower price, 2) better AF, 3) better reliability. These were concerns because the Phase One gear is very expensive, I did not trust autu focus on moving subjects, and I had my shutter tangle itself on a shoot, forcing me to use a D800 I had as a backup.
That said, when I got the actual quote for the Hasselblad it was actually more than the XF-100. This was partly because I would have had to replace my lenses, but even if that part of the quote was removed, it was still more expensive. This was due to the upgrade value my Phase One dealer was willing to give me. When I mentioned that to the Hasselblad dealer, he offered to give me a healthy competitive trade-in discount if I bought the H6-100. At this point, the price was almost exactly equal, not the $10k less I was expecting. Therefore, price was not an advantage.
The AF issue bugged me a bit because I like to shoot sports when I get the chance and it is very difficult to get anything in focus with fast moving athletes at close range. My D800 can do it fairly reliably, but the lenses (even my Zeiss Otus) aren’t as sharp as the Schneider lenses on the Phase One system, and the lower resolution and color depth are unsatisfying. On this subject, I was willing to give Phase One the benefit of the doubt on the basis of positive reviews I’d read of the updated honeybee focus system.
I had also read that the XF was much stronger reliability-wise than the DF+, which made me feel better about it. Also, I had read reports from disgruntled Hasselblad users that mirrored DeCohen-Lara’s tirade against Phase One. My own experience with the DF+ was that it had one serious problem: the shutter failure mentioned earlier, and then quite a few lockups that were solved in a minute or so by popping out the batteries and starting it up again. Since I have the same problem on my D800 (with the same solution) when using the Zeiss 15mm distagon, this didn’t bother me much. On the whole, this was a toss-up and I think may come down to manufacturing tolerances of individual cameras from both companies. I have used a loaner from Phase One twice (the other time was my fault for getting sand in the trigger when shooting on some dunes) and both times it was relatively painless.
There were two new factors added to the mix with the new 100MP Hasselblad: 1/2000s flash sync and 4k video. I liked the idea of both, but realistically didn’t expect to shoot video, and wasn’t sure that the difference between 1/1600s and 1/2000s sync was a deal-breaker.
What finally decided me was the color of the Phase One system. Every example photo I’ve seen from the H6-100 has color that I like less than the color used to demonstrate the XF-100. It may be the choice of images or photographers rather than the brilliant sensor (which is the same anyway), but it seemed to me possible that the difference in image processors (assuming that these are indeed different) or the way the Phase One interprets the signal from the sensor yields color more to my liking. This was not a small difference to me, because it is very clear in the images I was comparing, then confirmed when I demo’ed a unit over the summer. Though not my choice, I used it to shoot a basketball game (I wanted to use it on a studio portrait, but scheduling forced me to go with the game instead). So there I was with a 150mm blue ring Schneider mounted on an XF-100 shooting handheld from the foul line of some streetball championships. They wouldn’t let me use the strobes I brought (I am normally allowed to use these, but not at NBB games) so I had to shoot the whole day at between 1600-6400 ISO. I was not expecting great results given these conditions, but the color was amazing to look at and the ISO less of a problem than expected.
At this point I went for the XF-100, but admit that I did not demo the H6-100, though I had tentatively agreed to attend a workshop where I could have used one for a few hours. In the end it came down to color. For all I know this is more about the software on the camera than any of the mechanical details, but wherever it is coming from, I consistently prefer Phase One color to Hasselblad. They are both great, but the look is different.
I forgot to mention in my last post that I am quite enjoying the XF-100, primarily for the color and detail. Auto focus is a problem though, so I find myself using AF to get an approximate focus and then manually adjust from there. I shot an equestrian event with the camera and got some really amazing action shots, but then when shooting a bicycle race had a much harder time because the cyclists were moving much faster than the horses and I was much closer. That said, the colors are, again, superb. Also, using it for a sporting event is not done with the goal of recording the event–a Nikon or Canon would be fine for that–but to get one or two high quality action shots.
On a normal tethered shoot on location or in a studio, it works fine and I don’t worry about the AF because MF only takes a couple of minutes to perfect and after that no shots are lost.
AP
I found the color to be better with the Hasselblad system than the Phase One, but as you say, that is just a matter of taste. They both are incredible cameras. And since you already had a Phase One system switching is always a bit more costly. If you were starting from scratch, the Hasselblad would have saved you $15K USD. Either way, it doesn’t matter if you are happy with what you got.
Wow, that admission that the AF is so horrible you use it to get close then use manual focus is very telling. I can’t imagine buying a $48,000 USD camera set up and it can’t achieve accurate focus on a stationary subject. I have been shooting a ton of sports and all manner of subjects with the Hasselblad and the AF is incredibly good. Sure it can’t track moving subjects, but it can focus on whatever I point it at extremely accurately.
Michael
Great review better than maybe the other 20-30 on the internet.
Its seems most people reviewers don’t actual take the time to shoot any images process the files and compare like you did. If you know of any reviews that get into the software menu items and describe the functions in detail comparing the use of a particular setting(s) with real world shooting conditions you could pass the link on to me it would be great. I find Hasselblads explanations extremely limited, if they know the capabilities of the functions why don’t they explain them in plain words showing examples of why and how.
I have the 100c on order and looking forward to using it.
The things that still bother me about the camera are
The idea of integrated focus stepping has been on the “to-do-list”
Live view mode on the rear display where you can see a live view constant with auto focus.
Grip display
Higher resolution larger font size
tilt-able
sun grade LCD easy to see in bright light
Sensor Unit
Power solution for tech cam
Live histogram
Camera Body
titanium opt
Mirror up, remote release and stop down buttons relocated or to protrude farther out from body
Viewfinder
manual mode button A dedicated button to set to manual mode??
better sealing from dust
locking eyesight adjustment wheel
better eye piece hood (we have made it stronger and there is also a shorter type for eye-glass users available)
Remote shutter release
Jog stick and button w/ movable focus point
Lenses
different lens shade attachment system
180mm macro tilt shift
fast focus attachment
filter attachment system before lens shade
VR vibration reduction
tripod foot accessory for heavier lenses
Accessories
Panoramic Head with nodal points pre marked for lenses.
Better HTS- lighter/titanium, knobs that you can reach and adjust better clearance for cable release and access to mirror up, remote release and stop down buttons
Grip for left side of camera (vertical shooting)
One piece rain cover
wireless remote shutter release
sensor cleaning kit
lightening trigger
Hasselblad backpack (for field use not storage) with fitted section for camera body set up with RSS bracket and lens for field use.
Phase or Hasselblad; I shopped these systems early last year at a tradeshow (March 2016). They were just an aisle apart and I spent much of my tradeshow time hopping back and forth, comparing, analyzing, and focusing on the same beige wall with both cameras. Well it was the XF and the H5D, but I had a clear winner, Hasselblad. This would be my first Medium format camera after using Canon for 25 years. I preordered the H6D 100c the following month.
At that moment, I crowned the Hasselblad in my mind, because of how much more comfortable and compact the H5D body felt. Its faster autofocus was noticeable over the Phase XF body which was hunting and unsure. The XF’s awkward and heavy design, including the back autofocus button, made my hand sore after just minutes of use.
I used the H6D 50c for 5 months (June to October 2016) while waiting for my 100c order. My Hasselblad experience was like death from 1000 cuts. It constantly had digital back errors and other camera errors while shooting, which I had to remove the battery to reset, and one time my CF card corrupted. The 24mm and 28mm lens are cropped sensor lens that need a ton of correction to un-bubble them (Phocus does automatically), which may stretch parts of the image. The H6D 100c does not have a proper wide. The 35mm lens is old and has bad optics. The ipad app presented vertically shot images horizontal. The Phocus software is painfully slow. Hasselblad support did not have a PC, and was not able to help me after a Windows update did not recognize Hasselblad formatted cards. I returned the H6D system after contacting Hasselblad’s CEO. A few weeks later, the CEO departed, and the company reportedly is now owned by DJI in China.
A few weeks ago I bought a Phase One IQ3 50 kit with an 80mm and 35mm blue ring lenses. I did not want the 100mp at this point as I felt like I just got out of a bad relationship. I’m just now putting my toes back in the water. So far, I rate my Phase experience at 90 points out of 100. The Phase XF is heavier than the H6D. XF lenses are gear driven but I prefer the Hasselblad’s belt system on lenses as I like to rack out my focus, then re-autofocus. Not a big deal. The XF autofocus hunts more than H6D. Autofocus, in low light back focuses sometimes.
On the plus side, my XF camera has not had one error while shooting. I like how thoughtful the various features are on the XF body and back. One of my early favorites is the seismograph. I press the shutter button and the camera lifts the mirror and waits for any shaking to stop before firing. I can see the image better on the IQ3 50 back compared to the H6D back. I like the XF’s 2 battery design. I was never comfortable with the H6D’s battery/grip design as I worried the grip may come off. The XF grip does not come off. The 35 and 80mm lenses are super sharp and vibrant.
Capture One 10 is super-fast on my i7 8-core gtx1080 system. The same system running Phocus made me wait for thumbnails to be rendered, then I would view one large image, wait, then wait again when going back to the same thumbnails to render again. Phocus is a disaster. When you buy Hasselblad or Phase, you are also buying their proprietary darkroom. When I bought HB, I just didn’t think Phocus could be that bad.
To sum it up, I’m glad I don’t own the H6D anymore. My first month with the Phase system, camera and software, makes me excited about photography again. For the first time, I have confidence in a medium format system. Cheers,
I’ve owned both systems and have quite a bit of experience on commercial jobs with them both.
Both systems have their drawbacks. It’s like comparing a Ferrari and a Porsche. They’re both super high performance machines, and will likely need service from time to time. DSLR’S = HONDA VS TOYOTA. Dependable / Reliable / and do the job just ok
In terms of support:
Phase One hands down has been much easier to work with than Hasselblad. Turn around times on repairs much quicker, loaners next day, troubleshooting on the phone, easy. There’s just much more support out there.
Hasselblad Phocus vs Capture One =. No Brainer. Capture One is industry standard. I tech and shoot full-time and NO ONE uses Phocus on set. If there’s a Hasselblad on set it’s almost always with a Phase back on it, and for good reasons.
Lightroom is slow as molasses an you can’t shoot with a tech and have clients watching images come in with how slow that is. Not possible, it least to my standards.
Sync: Phase 1/1600th I get with all my lenses no problem. This is with Profoto built in remote in my XF. With pocket wizard plus 2’s I’ve gotten 1/1000 all the time. No issues here. The benefit of the Phase system is that you have a focal plane shutter. I can shoot outside, freeze action with the sun! Hasselblad, well good luck. You can only use a leaf shutter lens, and if you don’t have the newer Orange dot lenses, you are limited to 1/800th of a second. In full sun you’re having to stop down which sucks. Also 1/800th on medium format isn’t much at all. You need every ounce of shutter speed you can get, especially freezing action hand held on location (which is what I do quite a bit of and I know Michael does too).
Image quality: Both are awesome and if you only had one, you wouldn’t even scrutinize it or care. your clients won’t know the difference either. They can already barely see the difference between DSLR and MF. The more educated ones can, but they know what to look for. For me it’s just simply having a more prestigious tool to bring out on set, and of course the benefit is delivering much better image quality than a large portion of commercial photographers out there.
Focusing: Yes the XF can hunt, but so can the hassy. I have great success rate with focus. Michael not sure what you were testing or if you camera was set to “average” or “spot” focus, or if was set to “single” or “continuous”. Those all factor into how it focuses, but you may have had just an early camera or a bad unit.
I’m nailing it least 70% of focus with moving objects, and in studio I’m closer to 80%. Of course, if you’re shooting at f4 and wider, this can easily be a problem when the XF is set to “average”
The fact that DJI owns Hasselblad is kinda weird to me. They must have needed money badly to go that route.
BTW, if you want fast focus on an MF camera, get the FUJI! It’s fast and shoots 3fps, and you can handhold it pretty easily because it weighs half as the hassy and XF.
However, no true fast sync due to lack of leaf shutter lenses.
Hmm, what else. Well Phase costs way too much money!!!!!! They need to figure this out quick. They also alienate other MF camera users from using their software. I think that’s just arrogance in the industry.
Oh, Battery life. Much better on Phase XF system with battery sharing. Oh and the fact that you can use a waist level finder is amazing for some applications!! AKA, walking around and street shooting with an MF camera. Kinda cool.
The fact that the same Sony chip is in 5 different MFG cameras and the pricing difference is almost $20k makes me really question whats under the hood.
Anyhow, I’ve owned both, have had a few issues with both and am currently with an XF setup. I always recommend trying both out and seeing what’s best for you. BUT I can say as a working professional photographer, you will get more support and have better overall options with your camera with Phase. Hands down.
Feel free to ask any questions.